The primary concerns about the King Soopers move for me are the sales tax loss, of course, but also the loss of accessible fresh groceries for some of the population. A couple of questions about that:
1) Is the tax sharing agreement for Nine Mile indefinite, or is there an expiration when Lafayette may not get any tax revenue from there?
2) Has there been any talk from the city about trying to attract specifically grocery stores? I know that Kroger is trying to keep us from at leasing using that building as a source of fresh food (that's what happens when you have giant monopolies especially w/ the merger), but I'm hoping there could be another site not as far. If you don't have a car and live in Old Town or the retirement community, then walking to Sprouts or across the hwy to Walmart is not so easy.
The agreement states that the revenue sharing will continue in perpetuity unless terminated by agreement of both parties. That it shall remain in effect for the longest period permitted by by law.
I am with you on the other losses that the move creates. I am not hearing much discussion in public about the city trying to attract another grocery but that's fairly normal. If the city is trying to bring a specific company to town there can often be economic agreements involved which would not only have to be ironed out but also approved by the city council. That type of action usually begins in an executive session with council because you don't want to talk about what you are willing to give in public.
Having watched our economic development director for the few years she has been here I expect that she has this high on her radar.
This is another comment from a relative community newbie. How can the nine-mine property (South East Corner of Arapaho and 287 be in Erie and the Tebo property (South West Corner of Arapaho and 287 not be in the same jurisdiction. I guess despite Colorado being rectangular, Colorado towns are not rectangular. Do they need another grocery store there? There would be Safeway/Krogers/??? although I suppose if the merger goes through Safeway would not survive
Way back in the day there were various Intergovernmental Agreements (IGA) with neighboring communities often setting up boundaries over which the other would not cross in order to annex.
If land is still in Boulder County, developing it is difficult as there are restrictions on what can be built. We used to call them areas of influence, I think we probably still do. Basically It's not in our jurisdiction yet, but someday we want it. But without a way to "claim" those areas they were up for grabs by a neighboring community, hence these agreements that drew a line.
We had one with Erie and when it was created, from what old timers tell me (because I did not see it happen) our council at the time "gave" Erie that corner. This would be when Erie was a very small town. When I moved here in the late 80's Erie's old town area was about all there was and many of the streets were not paved.
Fast forward and Ron Stewart who was at various times Boulder County's open space czar, county commissioner and state rep (sometimes two at once) created what he called a Super IGA which rolled all of Bo Co's IGA's into one big one that served as a way to protect a lot of open lands. It had a twenty year time frame. When it came close to that twenty year mark Erie suddenly left the Super IGA.
Lafayette, fearful of what Erie might do, like jumping over 287 to snag Bo Co land that was "ours" read the Tebo property and going further west to the land where Silo is now, also left the IGA.
This all turned into a big issue with Erie doing some not so cool things with Nine Mile ( I gotta stop this explainer somehow!) and eventually turned into a court case between Lafayette and Erie.
In 2019 a change in city management in both Lafayette and Erie happened that resulted in a new IGA which is often referred to as the Global Agreement. That nailed down a way for both communities to cooperate and at that corner to share sales tax revenues.
Our towns are not rectangular at all. For instance, Lafayette did a flagpole annexation which takes us out 287 to where our water storage is at Goose Haven. We just annexed along 287 which looks like a flagpole then out to the west to snag Goose Haven which looks like a flag.
Regarding the Tebo property I think the city wants something that will bring us some replacement sales taxes since we are losing a lot due to the move by King Soopers, leaving us with no major grocer. We will have Sprouts, Natural Groceries and Walmart, that's it.
Fascinating. This is just a different world than I lived in. When I first moved here in the 2010s, I kept reading about land disputes between towns/cities and it made no sense to me. (The map of Lafayette looks like an amoeba, by the way)
In New England, town boundaries were fixed way back in history, and except for a couple of surveying errors, all land in Vermont is in one municipality or another (The three unincorporated areas are called "gores". Towns fight with each other over impact of development projects close to town boundaries, but most development is under control of the state (our famous Act 250 is important there). There are no towns that are in more than one county, and boundaries are either based on geographical features or latitude and longitude lines. This is truly the Wild West, and makes little sense to me, but I appreciate the explanations and patience as I try to understand the nuances.
Thank you Karen for the very detailed and informative update. Glad to hear Kroger wants to keep their presence at the site and fill the vacancy. The Lafayette Florist building maintenance million dollar fix is a real tough situation for a prospective business to overcome. I don't think LURA has that kind of money in their budget to make a significant impact but as you say,
we'll see. The Lafayette Flea is really nice now. I've always enjoyed shopping around in it. It will be very interesting to see what Tebo/Kensington propose on that site.
I think Kroger wants to make sure no competitor takes over that location!
Agreed about the Lafayette Florist building. I doubt LURA would try to cover that entire cost but since you watch as closely as you do, perhaps there might be some kind of gap analysis done to see what McGuckin would cover and what they won't.
The Lafayette Flea has really upped their game. But along with improvements can come increased pricing. It seems more expensive now, but I guess that is true everywhere. (says the woman who just got back from grocery shopping! haha)
What Kensington was proposing was not met with much in the way of happiness so far. We shall see what comes next.
Thank you for this informative update. Can you tell more about the Lower Alpine factory? Was it a clothing or some other kind of textile factory? It’s nice to know what things once were… a reminder that things are always changing and I might need to change too. (For instance, I am not happy that KS is building a bigger, “better” store. To me, the larger new or remodeled KS stores I’ve been in are too much, too big and disorienting. So for me, that upcoming change is not yet welcome).
But what is getting me to respond is the Tebo property. The fact that the city would consider putting in a grocery store, SMH (I realize you are emphasizing that no plans are really being made). Three stores at that intersection is a bit nuts. I do know that people have longed for Trader Joe’s to go into the old Alfalfa’s or to replace KS. I guess if a store were built there at some point I could then avoid the mega KS, but only if it were a smaller store that didn’t rack my nervous system 😂
Hi Robin! I guess I should have been a bit more specific about Lowe Alpine. They made outdoor gear such as backpacks, heavy duty camera bags etc. and later outdoor clothing. It was a well-known company with users of outdoor gear. It was started by Greg Lowe in his family's basement in Utah. The company revolutionized the designed of backpacks by creating an internal frame. The three Lowe brothers were renowned in the climbing world. I Googled to see what I could find. They have since been bought by another company named Rab but their products are still being made. This piece gives a lot of interesting history.
The primary concerns about the King Soopers move for me are the sales tax loss, of course, but also the loss of accessible fresh groceries for some of the population. A couple of questions about that:
1) Is the tax sharing agreement for Nine Mile indefinite, or is there an expiration when Lafayette may not get any tax revenue from there?
2) Has there been any talk from the city about trying to attract specifically grocery stores? I know that Kroger is trying to keep us from at leasing using that building as a source of fresh food (that's what happens when you have giant monopolies especially w/ the merger), but I'm hoping there could be another site not as far. If you don't have a car and live in Old Town or the retirement community, then walking to Sprouts or across the hwy to Walmart is not so easy.
The agreement states that the revenue sharing will continue in perpetuity unless terminated by agreement of both parties. That it shall remain in effect for the longest period permitted by by law.
I am with you on the other losses that the move creates. I am not hearing much discussion in public about the city trying to attract another grocery but that's fairly normal. If the city is trying to bring a specific company to town there can often be economic agreements involved which would not only have to be ironed out but also approved by the city council. That type of action usually begins in an executive session with council because you don't want to talk about what you are willing to give in public.
Having watched our economic development director for the few years she has been here I expect that she has this high on her radar.
This is another comment from a relative community newbie. How can the nine-mine property (South East Corner of Arapaho and 287 be in Erie and the Tebo property (South West Corner of Arapaho and 287 not be in the same jurisdiction. I guess despite Colorado being rectangular, Colorado towns are not rectangular. Do they need another grocery store there? There would be Safeway/Krogers/??? although I suppose if the merger goes through Safeway would not survive
Way back in the day there were various Intergovernmental Agreements (IGA) with neighboring communities often setting up boundaries over which the other would not cross in order to annex.
If land is still in Boulder County, developing it is difficult as there are restrictions on what can be built. We used to call them areas of influence, I think we probably still do. Basically It's not in our jurisdiction yet, but someday we want it. But without a way to "claim" those areas they were up for grabs by a neighboring community, hence these agreements that drew a line.
We had one with Erie and when it was created, from what old timers tell me (because I did not see it happen) our council at the time "gave" Erie that corner. This would be when Erie was a very small town. When I moved here in the late 80's Erie's old town area was about all there was and many of the streets were not paved.
Fast forward and Ron Stewart who was at various times Boulder County's open space czar, county commissioner and state rep (sometimes two at once) created what he called a Super IGA which rolled all of Bo Co's IGA's into one big one that served as a way to protect a lot of open lands. It had a twenty year time frame. When it came close to that twenty year mark Erie suddenly left the Super IGA.
Lafayette, fearful of what Erie might do, like jumping over 287 to snag Bo Co land that was "ours" read the Tebo property and going further west to the land where Silo is now, also left the IGA.
This all turned into a big issue with Erie doing some not so cool things with Nine Mile ( I gotta stop this explainer somehow!) and eventually turned into a court case between Lafayette and Erie.
In 2019 a change in city management in both Lafayette and Erie happened that resulted in a new IGA which is often referred to as the Global Agreement. That nailed down a way for both communities to cooperate and at that corner to share sales tax revenues.
Our towns are not rectangular at all. For instance, Lafayette did a flagpole annexation which takes us out 287 to where our water storage is at Goose Haven. We just annexed along 287 which looks like a flagpole then out to the west to snag Goose Haven which looks like a flag.
Regarding the Tebo property I think the city wants something that will bring us some replacement sales taxes since we are losing a lot due to the move by King Soopers, leaving us with no major grocer. We will have Sprouts, Natural Groceries and Walmart, that's it.
Hope this helps with understanding and is probably way more info than you wanted! I can't add an attachment to this comment but here's a map of Lafayette https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=map+of+lafayette+co
Fascinating. This is just a different world than I lived in. When I first moved here in the 2010s, I kept reading about land disputes between towns/cities and it made no sense to me. (The map of Lafayette looks like an amoeba, by the way)
In New England, town boundaries were fixed way back in history, and except for a couple of surveying errors, all land in Vermont is in one municipality or another (The three unincorporated areas are called "gores". Towns fight with each other over impact of development projects close to town boundaries, but most development is under control of the state (our famous Act 250 is important there). There are no towns that are in more than one county, and boundaries are either based on geographical features or latitude and longitude lines. This is truly the Wild West, and makes little sense to me, but I appreciate the explanations and patience as I try to understand the nuances.
I'm a little disappointed to hear that Kroger isn't interested in a public/private partnership. Is it worth writing to Brigid Keating?
I think it's always worth following up with staff. :-)
I meant to say what Tebo/Kensington will propose on their site at the SW corner of 287 and Arapahoe. Sorry for any confusion.
Thank you Karen for the very detailed and informative update. Glad to hear Kroger wants to keep their presence at the site and fill the vacancy. The Lafayette Florist building maintenance million dollar fix is a real tough situation for a prospective business to overcome. I don't think LURA has that kind of money in their budget to make a significant impact but as you say,
we'll see. The Lafayette Flea is really nice now. I've always enjoyed shopping around in it. It will be very interesting to see what Tebo/Kensington propose on that site.
I think Kroger wants to make sure no competitor takes over that location!
Agreed about the Lafayette Florist building. I doubt LURA would try to cover that entire cost but since you watch as closely as you do, perhaps there might be some kind of gap analysis done to see what McGuckin would cover and what they won't.
The Lafayette Flea has really upped their game. But along with improvements can come increased pricing. It seems more expensive now, but I guess that is true everywhere. (says the woman who just got back from grocery shopping! haha)
What Kensington was proposing was not met with much in the way of happiness so far. We shall see what comes next.
Karen,
Thank you for this informative update. Can you tell more about the Lower Alpine factory? Was it a clothing or some other kind of textile factory? It’s nice to know what things once were… a reminder that things are always changing and I might need to change too. (For instance, I am not happy that KS is building a bigger, “better” store. To me, the larger new or remodeled KS stores I’ve been in are too much, too big and disorienting. So for me, that upcoming change is not yet welcome).
But what is getting me to respond is the Tebo property. The fact that the city would consider putting in a grocery store, SMH (I realize you are emphasizing that no plans are really being made). Three stores at that intersection is a bit nuts. I do know that people have longed for Trader Joe’s to go into the old Alfalfa’s or to replace KS. I guess if a store were built there at some point I could then avoid the mega KS, but only if it were a smaller store that didn’t rack my nervous system 😂
Hi Robin! I guess I should have been a bit more specific about Lowe Alpine. They made outdoor gear such as backpacks, heavy duty camera bags etc. and later outdoor clothing. It was a well-known company with users of outdoor gear. It was started by Greg Lowe in his family's basement in Utah. The company revolutionized the designed of backpacks by creating an internal frame. The three Lowe brothers were renowned in the climbing world. I Googled to see what I could find. They have since been bought by another company named Rab but their products are still being made. This piece gives a lot of interesting history.
https://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/outdoor-features/discover/a-short-history-of-lowe-alpine-1934-2017/
I agree about the larger King Soopers store, I am not a fan of super sizing it.
As far as the Tebo property goes it's all up in the air at this point. It's a real wait and see game.
Very interesting about the Lowe company. Thank u!